What Happened To Dynamic Range?

Post by **LMan** » 18/07/2006 - 16:22

Vosla: I've once read a study that people with slightly impaired hearing have an enhanced awareness for mp3 compression artifacts. They assumed that the limited perception of the soundscape disables the concept of psychoacoustics, which is the basis for mpeg audio compression.

Vosla · Post by **Vosla** » 18/07/2006 - 16:25

Na super!

xo · Post by xo » 18/07/2006 - 19:34

Interesting! Although most people should be able to hear the degradation suffered from 128 Kb/s MP3 compression.

Lagerfeldt · Post by **Lagerfeldt** » 18/07/2006 - 19:54

LMan / Remix64 wrote:Vosla: I've once read a study that people with slightly impaired hearing have an enhanced awareness for mp3 compression artifacts. They assumed that the limited perception of the soundscape disables the concept of psychoacoustics, which is the basis for mpeg audio compression.

So people with bad hearing actually have better hearing, eh?

I wish I had bad hearing then.

Post by **LMan** » 19/07/2006 - 5:18

Lagerfeldt wrote: So people with bad hearing actually have better hearing, eh? I wish I had bad hearing then.

Hehe in case of mpeg compression, yes. But that study was based on only a handful of test candidates - no real conclusion could be made, but only assumptions.

Btw, the encoder you use makes a big difference too. I remember that the Radius modification of the Frauenhofer codec for example sounded much more decent than Xing. The latter totally messed up any high frequency attacks, resulting in a muddy sound even at higher bitrates. Today, I'm using Lame.

Anyway I'm

tony.rc · Post by **tony.rc** » 21/07/2006 - 3:53

That was a very nice read, some food for thought. I'm kinda shocked that current day music engineers are not keeping the raw recording considering the cost of storing data has never been cheapier.

Another ironic thing is that I thought the selling point for CDs today was that the music was raw and not compress like mp3s. That said I've not brought a CD for ages! I HATE the format and badly wanted the DVD Audio to take off.

The only way to make CDs louder was to keep compressing the signal more and more.

Mmm that sounds a lot like the excuse that commerical TV stations say about very loud adverts between TV shows. We don't make the adverts any louder than the TV show we are just "compress the sound".

Anyway I'm:offtopic: too.

Tonka · Post by **Tonka** » 21/07/2006 - 11:26

@ Tony.

I think you are confusing 2 different types of compression.

The article refers to is the compression of a recordings dynamics (volume). This is (basically) a way of altering the volume of a track automatically so that the quiet parts are increased and the loud parts decreased. This creates a more 'level', less dynamic sound but with the positive aspect being a 'perceived' increase in overall volume.

MP3 compression is compression of data, with a noticable quality loss in terms of (depending on encoder) dulling of high frequencies, reduced attack of short or 'plucked' instruments (high hats, laser zaps and acoustic guitars, etc) and a reduction of the stereo image.

And for the record, I don't even watch TV anymore - mainly due to the adverts and how damn LOUD they are!

Tonka

Makke · Post by **Makke** » 21/07/2006 - 12:01

Tonka wrote:And for the record, I don't even watch TV anymore - mainly due to the adverts and how damn LOUD they are!

Oh, yes. I don't watch much TV, and when I do it's usually advert free public service for the very reason you mentioned. Watching movies - for example - that get interupted every half hour by loud adverts is just out of the question!

It's quite entertaining how the channels running outragously loud commercials try to maintain that there's nothing they can do about the volume on the ads.

Romeo Knight · Post by **Romeo Knight** » 21/07/2006 - 15:10

Makke wrote: It's quite entertaining how the channels running outragously loud commercials try to maintain that there's nothing they can do about the volume on the ads.

Hey, blame it on me, I'm one of those who's really responsible!

Give me Waves L1 Ultramaximizer and I'm milling your ad so flat, your ears will explode!

Haarrhaarrharrr!!

<cough>
In Germany there are some few stations that turn down the volume during commercial breaks manually, others don't.

Lagerfeldt · Post by **Lagerfeldt** » 21/07/2006 - 21:34

Romeo Knight wrote:
Makke wrote: Hey, blame it on me, I'm one of those who's really responsible!
Give me Waves L1 Ultramaximizer and I'm milling your ad so flat, your ears will explode! Haarrhaarrharrr!!.

Glad you don't have the L2 and a clipper. Then it'll be really "loud". Or just super obnoxious.

Romeo Knight · Post by **Romeo Knight** » 21/07/2006 - 21:43

Lagerfeldt wrote: Glad you don't have the L2 and a clipper. Then it'll be really "loud". Or just super obnoxious.

No need. -18 dB Gain reduction on the mix is quite usual.

Harrharrharr!

Lagerfeldt · Post by **Lagerfeldt** » 21/07/2006 - 23:21

In some extreme situations I might have 3 - 5 dB of GR in the L2, but usually a lot less and only on transients. I then have anywhere between no clipping and 0.9 dB of clipping.

Makke · Post by **Makke** » 23/07/2006 - 9:34

Romeo Knight wrote:Hey, blame it on me, I'm one of those who's really responsible!

Damn you, Eike! Damn you!!!

I wanted an emoticon that shakes his fist at you, but since I couldn't find one, this one will have to do. Imagine the head is a fist, please.

Romeo Knight · Post by **Romeo Knight** » 24/07/2006 - 8:21

Well, I have to do this! I need the money!

gibs · Post by **gibs** » 24/07/2006 - 9:43

Romeo Knight wrote:In fact music production has never sounded better than today. (There are exceptions, I know.) Another fact is: People like it loud. They want the punch, they want the maximum loudness in their music.

I never listened to a record louder than AC/DC ! the output volume is very high and in your face...I think they have the best sound engeneer...